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Shooting Grip-Bone Bruise-Help
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Anyone had this problem? Is there a solution? Help!
Very recently I started having problems with gun recoil against the bone at the base of my thumb. I know we are all built a little different. The round bone at the base of my thumb sits behind the V in the web of my hand, between the thumb, and the index finger.
It started when I first fired my new Sig 232 sl. I let it heal, then tried the Sig again, with the same results. Last week I took a new CZ 75B, and a new Bersa Thunder to the range. I fired the Bersa first, and almost immediately started to take pain on that thumb bone. Then I fired my CZ 75B to see if there was a difference. There was not. I noticed the (is it a beavertail saftey or tang?) was lined up perfectly in the center of the web of my hand, and that the end of that do-hingie touched the bone at the base of my thumb.
Man, I hated to put that CZ down, but couldn't take any more.
What I have today is a black & blue, bonebruise. Recoil which has never been a problem for me, broke thru the skin on the left part of that bone...I'm right handed.
I'd like to know if my shootin days are over, or what's going on all of a sudden.
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04-14-2005, 04:19 PM #2
Duxman
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Bullrock,
Not from practical experience, but from reading (Source Inside Delta Force by Charles Beckwith) - this was a common problem with the Delta Force team members when they first started out. They fired over 1 Million rounds in a month. (.45 auto's no less)
They eventually built caluses on the web of their thumb and forefinger. I suggest training your weak hand while you are waiting for your strong hand to heal.
Then you can one day become ambidextrous and fire John Woo style. Good luck.
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04-14-2005, 04:31 PM #3
gb_in_ga
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Join Date: 02-15-2005
Location: Marietta, Ga
Posts: 826 "Recoil which has never been a problem for me, broke thru the skin on the left part of that bone..."
Hmm -- I noticed something sorta like that one day after I had shot 250 rounds and had shot 200 rounds the day before, both days with my Bersa Thunder .380. I didn't have a bruise, but it did break skin right there on the left side of the beavertail, on that bone you are describing just below the joint. I just switched over to shooting revolver for the next few shoots, as that doesn't seem to do that.
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04-14-2005, 04:34 PM #4
Jim Watson
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Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,295 Blowback .380s have more recoil than you might think.
If you have a deep bruise from it, you are going to have to let it heal COMPLETELY or you will keep reinjuring it. How's your weak hand shooting? Time to polish up on it.
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04-14-2005, 04:58 PM #5
Bullrock
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Join Date: 11-25-2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,022 Jim Watson & Duxman, thanks for reminding me I have more than one hand. I do want to fire that CZ 75 again, so left handed it is for a while.
gb_in_ga, just before I read your post I tried a couple of my wheelguns and they don't come anywhere near that bone bruise. So wheelgun it is. I have a new PT-85 that needs breaking in...
And thanks for letting me know I'm not the only person on the planet to have this problem. Funny thing though, it seemed to happen overnight after all these years.
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04-14-2005, 05:51 PM #6
Russ5924
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Join Date: 02-18-2005
Posts: 627 I fired my taurus 905 9MM the first shot didn't hold tight and hammer got me same place you are talking about.Waited two weeks figured was healed ok first shot split that sucker back open.So now will wait a while longer if it does it again bye 905
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04-14-2005, 07:55 PM #7
AdamGrier_atc
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Join Date: 01-11-2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 46 Bullrock,
I am a Certified Athletic Trainer, and while I have not seen this problem with shooting, I see a similar problem with Baseball players that get a bone bruise in the same spot while batting. We use a thumb guard made of rubber that silps over the thumb and sits in the webbing between the thumb and index finger. I'm not sure how comfortable it would be shooting, but its worth a try. We use the "direct protect thumbguard". I have attatched a picture to show what it looks like.
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Attached Images illustration-1.jpg (17.3 KB, 81 views)
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04-14-2005, 09:08 PM #8
LHB1
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Join Date: 03-25-2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 322 Bullrock,
I have a similar problem with my S&W M629 Classic revolvers in .44 Mag. The hump at top rear of grip frame hits that small bone on recoil. I can't shoot more than two shots with std pistol grips. My solution was to install Jordan Trooper stocks by www.herrett-stocks.com. These pistol grips provide a smooth curve on rear of grip which totally eliminates the painful pounding for me. I can now shoot two boxes of full power .44 Mag loads with no pain. After that, the hands begin to get a little sore from the pounding recoil. (Old age doesn't help any.)
Am not familiar with the pistols you mentioned and don't know if similar stocks are available for them but you might check on it. Another possible solution is to wear a shooting/baseball/golf glove on your shooting hand and see if that helps. Good luck. I hope you find a solution that works for you!
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
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04-14-2005, 11:42 PM #9
Sgt127
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Join Date: 05-13-2002
Posts: 99 I've never had that problem with any autos, for me, its big revolvers. .357-.41 mag-44 mag. After many many years of shooting anything I wanted to, I went out and shot a .41 magnum (It always hurt a little and took a little hide off) but, this was different. It HURT. I have a calcium deposit/bone spur whatever, right on that spot now. For me, the trick was to make the thinnest pistol grips I could. So I could rotate my hand around a little more and better center the recoil straight back into the web of my hand. (In other words, rotate my right hand a little more clockwise...hope that makes sense) I tried big Pachmyer pistol grips, although they cushioned the blow, it actually had the reverse effect of turning the grip further into my thumb joint. Try playing with a single stack for awhile, like a 1911 with thin pistol grips, or a revolver with thin pistol grips to let that recoil smack you in a different place. After almost thirty years of shooting, I had to retrain my hand on how to hold a revolver. Had I done that years ago, I may not have the problem I do now...oh well. Having met Jerry Michulek, shaking hands with him and realizing he has great big hands, it seemed strange that his custom pistol grips are actually very skinny. I asked him about that and he said it was all about trigger reach. I may have discoverd on my own what a really good shooter discovered years ago...
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04-15-2005, 12:00 AM #10
CraZkid
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Join Date: 12-05-2004
Posts: 277 I am no expert, but i have a couple of ideas. Try rubber pistol grips. If that fails, try finding some gloves that pad the affected area. Or better yet buy some mechanics gloves, snip the trigger finger, put cotton or gauze on the affected area, tape it in place and then put the gloveson over that for better padding. These are things that I would try before I give up shooting.
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Join Date: 12-06-2004
Posts: 93 I used to have some leather semi-"fingerless" bicycling gloves. They were padded pretty well in the palm in order to protect against this very ailment from extended downward pressure on the handlebars. That was WAY back in the 70's, but perhaps something like them are still to be had in a good bicycle shop.
Join Date: 10-13-2004
Posts: 2,373 I would check www.eaglepistol grips.com They could possibly custom build you a set of pistol grips. I used to attend university with an olympic shooter who had a custom hand mould set of pistol grips. The Pachmayr rubber pistol grips could help a little. The first thing is to allow time for healing. A revolver might be the ticket though. I suggest you consult with your doctor and ask if there is a occupational rehab center that could assist you. I had a custom "sock" style glove similar to the image posted moulded for my hand. It worked for me. I now wear gel padded bicycle gloves when I shoot extended sessions.
Join Date: 09-07-2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 570 It sounds like you have small hands. VERY small hands.
A couple of things to check:
Try shooting a J frame or K frame Smith, with smaller pistol grips; see how they fit.
Also, try some slimmer pistol grips on the pistols to see if they help. Have you had your hand examined recently? There might be a bone growth or deformity that might contribute to the problem.
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Join Date: 11-25-2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,022 AdamGrier_atc, In looking at your graphic the device seems to protect the palm side rather than the back side of the hand. To hone in on the area I'm referring to, hold your right hand out in front of you, palm down, don't stretch it too much. As you look down at the V between your thumb and index finger, note the round bone at the base of the thumb. You may have to drop your thumb down a little to make it more prominent. Bend your thumb under, and the spot where I'm getting killed is on the inside top of that joint. Many thanks!
Powderman, sorry I don't have small hands. My USP C, known to be bulky, fits my gunhand quite well, and it doesn't hurt me. My CZ 75B fits my hand better, and punches the hell out of the base of my thumb.
I'm going to be looking into to all of your suggestions. In the meantime I ordered a shooting mitt from Champion Shooters Supply. While it does protect the thumb base area it is very bulky, and difficult to hang onto the gun with. Maybe some breaking in, like a catchers mitt would do the trick.
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I have the same problem as Bullrock.
For me, I think it is becuase I am new to shooting handguns.
Can probably attribute mine to holding incorrectly, etc etc.
I have looked into shooting gloves, mits, etc.
Let us know how that shooters glove works for you - as I am going the same route.
Large gun show here in MN at the fair grounds this weekend, hopefully find something there.
Bats.
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Posts: 2,022 http://www.uncle-mikes.com/adtemplat...catky2=2000085
Try the above link for a Unique shock-dissipating gel insert protects web between thumb and forefinger from impact without affecting grip.
I found this today and ordered one. I don't know how to put a graphic up to show anyone interested.
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Bullrock...thanks for the link.
Million dollar question.....actually 30.00 question.
What size is my hand?
(looking for a size chart)
/damn. I called around to all stores around Minneapolis, MN and no one has the gloves. But they DID have OTHER Mike's gloves. So i will go try them on and then order some after I get the size. Thanks again Bull....
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Last edited by BatmanX : 04-15-2005 at 06:27 PM.
Join Date: 03-11-2005
Posts: 643 Do they make the Hogue screw on pistol grips for those guns? I had that on my P228 and it was super comfy to shoot. I will tell you that the Sig P230 does have some kick to it even though it is a .380 ACP. The light weight of the gun combined with the blow back design have a lot to do with it.
Are you holding the grip squarely in the web of your hand? Is the back of the grip extra blocky for your hand? Try getting a pistol with a slimmer grip if that is the problem. I hope the gloves work for you. Best of luck.
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Join Date: 02-22-2005
Posts: 3 I had a 45-70 contender, and even with the muzzletamer, the recoil to the bones of my hand was brutal. I bought a pair of fingerless gloves that were made especially for people who run machinery that vibrates the hands. They were made of leather and nylon and had some kind of thick but compressible
padding in the palm and up toward the thumb. They worked great and solved my problem.
Join Date: 04-06-2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 14 I am having the exact same problem! And guess which gun? The Sig 232. Hey, I feel your pain man! It is something about the shape of the gun under the backstrap and the recoil. I do not have the problem with my Sig 9mm.
I bought a pair of Danskin "workout" gloves, the kind with no fingers. It helped, really did. I am also going to check out the Uncle Mike's thing.
I have small hands, too, being 5'4" and female.
Pain or not, I still love my baby Sig.
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Sig Sauer P239 in 9mm
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Join Date: 12-15-2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 46 I have the same problem w/my Makarovs (and other handguns in the past). The only things that have helped me are a tighter grip on the pistol and just a dab of Vaseline right at the wear point on the skin. The tighter grip reduces the downward impact of the frame onto the bone and the Vaseline acts as a lubricant to prevent the frame from rubbing the skin off. HTH...
Tomac
Posts: 10 Custom pistol grips
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Bullrock:
Try Omega's custom pistol grips. I don't know about other guns, but he can illuminate your problem for your CZ gun. He makes wonders. and one of them ultra thin pistol grips
Omega custom pistol grips
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Join Date: 11-25-2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,022 I received the gloves from uncle mike's 3 days ago. I haven't seen the sun for the last 4 days, and I do plan to try them out tomorrow. There does seem to be good protection at the area near the base of the thumb.
Since the suggestions I shoot left handed, I have noticed that the gun doesn't line up the same in my left hand, (in the web area between the thumb and index finger) as it does my right. It is a straighter alignment with my left then my right, which tends more towards the thumb side.
ParagonSig, thank you! I'm sure allot of Sig. owners thought I was nuts... You may want to try the gloves from Uncle Mikes. I do hope to try them tomorrow and do a range report.
TR64, Thanks, I have ordered a pair...
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Join Date: 04-06-2005
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Posts: 14 I'm getting a pair, too
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since they are specially made for this purpose. Until they arrive, I am concentrating on the 9mm. I am also going to work on my grip (during dry fire excercises with my snap caps) and see if some improvement can be made.
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I tried the gloves today with my new CZ P01, and my 2nd range session with my Bersa Thunder.
The glove worked great with the CZ P01. I put 100 rds through it using both Winchester 115GR FMJ, and 147GR JHP, and the thumb knuckle held up fine with the glove on. No pain, no bruising.
Then I tried my Bersa. I had 4 magazines ready to go. I fired 3 shots from the 1st mag., all with pain, and the 3rd shot broke the skin on the side of my knuckle. That was enough.
During a time out, a member came over, and noticed my Bersa. Oh, a Bersa Duotone he exclaimed! Still nursing my thumb, I replied, Yeah, you want to buy it? How much, he asked? $150, I replied! Sold, he said!
Bye Bersa Thunder! Hello, Uncle Mikes shooting gloves!
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